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ggrothau

Trooper

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Suggestion: Allow helicopters to kill subs.

Why?
- Currently, if one player places subs on all of the harbors in any body of water, no other player can move against that body of water no matter what.
- Currently, the only counter for subs are destroyers or more subs. Whereas the other water units can be attacked by anything land, water, or sea that can reach them.
- In real life, aircraft carriers employ sub-hunting helicopters. They can drop depth charges or some such nonsense (not a military expert).
- Helicopters aren't that commonly used in the games I've been playing.

Lucian

Berserker

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Oh hell naw!

For a number of reasons:

1) Subs cannot go on enemy harbors, hence they cannot block them.
2) Subs can only hit other subs, destroyers and battleships, which are the only units that can hit subs.
3) Destroyers and battleships absolutely demolish all other units, including air and land respectively. Not having subs to hunt them down would seriously overpower both as well as naval units as a whole.
4) Sub-hunting helicopters are used more so for spotting. They're next to useless if a sub has even the slightest bit of depth cover. Ships on the other hand use sonar to locate and release those same depth charges. No visual necessary.
5) Helicopters are very map dependent. They're the best air unit to use against ground troops on low income maps. Vital in some cases.
6) It would unbalance the game and make subs useless.

You're thinking in the right direction but IMO it would just unbalance the game and stuff up subs as a whole. Play a few low income maps (50-75 per base) with airfields and you'll see just how useful copters are in those!

Po

Berserker

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Agree with Lucian.

Streen

Heavy Tank

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subs can block independent ports, but hey, such is life, deal with it!

I also think there should be one single land unit that is able to hit subs, but Helis are not the right solution.

So back to the drawing board and come up with a better idea!

VTTruck

Berserker

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How about subs can be attacked IF they are in any harbor. This is realistic and
removes the situation initially discussed (and pointed out by Mattie in her recent post).

A sub at harbor could also suffer defense penalty when attacked by land units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 16/09/2008 23:14:23

Lucian

Berserker

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That would definitelly work. I'd agree with that, since they'd need to surface.

Streen

Heavy Tank

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erm... guys, that would kinda remove the subs ability to block neutral harbors now wouldn't it???

I don't mind coming up with a way to solve the problem if someone is blocking a port, but totally removing the advantage of such blocking? No, this shit wont fly!

Lucian

Berserker

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...which would make harbors on par with bases and airfields. Seems only natural.

Mattie

Raider

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Well, as discussed earlier, this isn't just annoying, it can be exploited to force a draw on some pro maps (it can be used on any map that has a port, but it's very hard on most of them) via unkillable subs. See my discussion here:
http://weewar.com/forum/posts/list/330.page

I'm not an advocate for helicopters being able to attack subs. But I do think Heavy Troopers should be able to do so (as a special ops sort of thing).
-Mattie

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 17/09/2008 21:35:19

VTTruck

Berserker

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erm... guys, that would kinda remove the subs ability to block neutral harbors now wouldn't it???

I don't mind coming up with a way to solve the problem if someone is blocking a port, but totally removing the advantage of such blocking? No, this shit wont fly!


Hey - we could be asking for the authenticity that a sub next to land is vulnerable too. Ever seen
a sub in deep water near the shore? At least heli's and the like could be patrolling the shorelines.

A sub *IN* a port shouldnt be invulnerable - in fact it ought to be downright dead to anything but light inf.

The subs defense comes from running deep. One good rocket to the side of a sub would ruin structural
integrity dont you think?

If a Zerk has a penalty sitting on a base why should a sub be strong in port?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/09/2008 23:23:22

Lucian

Berserker

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Because a zerk should get a boost.

I really don't think air units should be able to hit subs. It would unbalance things way to much.

spadequack

Heavy Tank

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Subs do suffer a small loss of atk/def in a harbor: -2 atk, -1 def. See http://weewar.com/specifications

VTTruck

Berserker

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Yeah, the suffer a penalty in a harbor but only to other boats. If you allow
other units to attack subs only when in port then you remove the forced stalemate issue
AND make it more realistic. Whats the problem there?

wynja

Trooper

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In my opinion, bombers should be able to hit subs. Helis don't hunt subs, but bombers loaded down with special designed torpedoes sure do. They wouldn't do the same damage to a subs as a land unit, or ships, but they should certainly be able to hit them.

Lucian

Berserker

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No. Keep air units out of it. The best way to keep things balanced is to allow Jetboats/Hovercraft to hit them whilst on bases. That's it! You unbalance the game too much otherwise and being able to hit with a hovercraft can help with that forced surrender.

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