|10/01/2012 15:11:25 First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Instructions, Rules, Appeals, Decisions|
MOVING FOWARD this thread will be the place to read about tourney rules, to make appeals and to read decisions from the organizing committee.
It's that time of the year again. Tourney time. We (Shulgin, Daithi and I) are thinking that standard 1-32, or whatever, seeding kinda sucks. So, how about pools with round robins? pools of 4 would guarantee each tourney participant at least 3 games.
Let's aim for 4 (randomly selected? seeded?) pools of 4 (16 players) with the round robin winner of each pool advancing to the semi finals. if we get tons of interest maybe we set up 8 pools of 4 = 32 players with the winner of each round robin pool advancing to the quarter finals.
post here if you are interested in playing - first come, first serve. but please only post if you are committed to playing all your tourney games in a timely fashion.
also, there are some basic rules we should all agree on in advance:
1) rated or non-rated games? i vote rated, because then people take their games more seriously, and there is less chance of abandonment. it also makes for a more competitive spirit, which i dig, but some don't.
2) which map(s) to use? there is usually some form of standardization using balanced maps. it would make sense in a round robin that all the games in the first round (the round robin games) were on the same map. the elimination rounds (quarters, semis and finals) could be on different maps. input from all participants will be welcome, but i guess the organizing committee will ultimately decide on the maps. ok?
3) turn length/how long before you get booted/eliminated? this can be a problem in tournies, especially if one pool is done quickly and another is taking forever to finish its games. perhaps someone can re-read Rocky Dog and others old tourney threads to find the best practices on dealing with this?
4) How to break ties?
Your input is welcome!
Also, let us know if you're interested in being on a panel of three judges to moderate disputes and interpret the rules. Judges cannot participate in the tourney.
If you sign up here, but don't like the way the organizing committee (Shugin, Daithi, McMonster, maybe Casaubon) decides to structure things after the community hashes things out here, no problemo. this also means that we'll keep a waiting list, so don't be disheartened if there are already 16 or 32 players signed up when you find this
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 07/05/2013 15:09:44
|10/01/2012 17:53:33 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|unrated tourneys suck => RATED PLEASE, if this is rated sign me in -> Casaubon|
|10/01/2012 19:00:17 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
Rated or not makes no difference to me. In a tourney, with pride on the line and lots of viewers, I don't think making the games rated alters the effort level.
Map balance issues could be mitigated a little bit by requiring each person to play 2 as one color, one as the other in the round robin. Maybe even mandate before the tourney who is "home or away" for each game.
If you wanted to get complicated, you could allow two or more map choices, allow one side to pick a color, then the other guy picks the map. Or flip coins. Or design a coin flip map: two troopers on a grassy plain. Blue attacks red. If red has 6 or more points left, red win the flip, if 5 or fewer, red loses...
Just thinking out loud.....
|10/01/2012 21:17:59 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
Came back recently after life got a bit hectic and have always wanted to play in a tournament. Please consider me when it starts.
Would like to see the tournament games rated. I would agree it gives incentive to not quit and also weeds out those just wanting to stay highly rated and not competitive.
Think it should be weighted heavily on competitively even maps with a slightly unbalanced one thrown in. Would only go with the uneven if it was a format where opponents play each side. Also if it is a 2 game per map format you could have both maps playing concurrently.
Time is always a tough one. Maybe a 1 day with 2 timeouts of up to 2 days per game or a 3 day with quick boot. Would you have a round limit to a game or if say plus 3-4 point bases controlled after so many rounds auto win? I would defer to the more seasoned vets on this one. As for those that finish quickly, maybe a tournament challenge map and those looking to play start a thread to play others from the tournament.
Ties should be allowed and have a score system something like 2 pts win, 1 pt tie and 0 for loss. If 2 teams tie after round robin play then a sudden death small tournament map highest seed picks color.
Hope my ideas aren't to out there look forward to playing.
|10/01/2012 21:21:21 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
I'd like the games to be rated.
In the first round all the games could be played at the same time, that is you could start all the games against the players in your pool (or group or whatever) before any of them are finished. If so, it would probably be good to have some extra time for the first round compared with the elimination rounds, as you might have 3-4 tourney games going on at once.
Just an idea: if ever the need arises for the judges to decide a result (or something) by drawing lots, this could be done publicly Weewar-style: set up a map with a few pairs of DFA:s facing each other. Blue fires on red, and the one who's DFA survives, wins. Repeat if it is a draw.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/01/2012 21:31:03
|10/01/2012 21:22:33 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|10/01/2012 21:41:23 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|I am very interested in participating.|
|10/01/2012 22:54:49 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
I would have been the second reply... but lots of things going on today.
Several things I mentioned were mentioned by preceding replies, but I'm too lazy to edit. Thumbs up for similar comments.
-I'll play as Mapmaker.
-I'd prefer if others also play their highest ranked profile.
-I prefer rated.
-This week I could play the 5 minute games, but before the tournament is over I'd probably have to require a 3 day turn to not piss off the real world (read as woman in my life). But that is part of why old tourneys sometimes dragged on.
-I agree that each round uses different maps.
-Player games should include a game as both blue and red.
-New maps made prior to the round starting allows all players time to practice on the maps prior to the tournament by about the same amount. New maps helps improve the community by giving us more fun maps to play.
-New maps should be smallish, but not small enough that luck is a game deciding factor. Stirlings aruba plays well because it allows an unlucky player to run away (also players who make 1-2 mistakes) and the unluck or mistakes don't cost the game. This works because of the distance from the nearest bases and the income level and the power level each side would have before one player would decide to run away. The map takes a lot into account to allow a player to survive an early setback and still have a chance to win. Anyone who over extends on such a map may end up impaling themselves and losing quickly.
-We should consider the possibility of using specific sets of units, such as just the light units plus the heavy infantry.
A tournament to allow any number of players to begin:
I actually like it well enough that I filled out the tournament style and turned it into the first annual spring Weewar season. If there is enough interest we do the season, if not I may organize the first annual Spring Weewar season anyway.
Players A B C D E F G H I J K L M N P Q R S T U V W X Y
ABCD are higher skilled players
6 groups of 4
Placement into Divisions:
A to divisions 1
B to division 2
C to division 3
D to division 4
E to division 5
F to division 6 - in the spirit of team picking in as hoc volleyball... reverse placement order
G to division 6
H to division 5
I to division 4
J to division 3
K to division 2
L to division 1 - reverse placement order again
M to division 1
N to division 2
P to division 3
Q to division 4
R to division 5
S to division 6
T to division 6
U to division 5
V to division 4
W to division 3
X to division 2
Y to division 1
division 1 - A L M Y
division 2 - B K N X
division 3 - C J P V
division 4 - D I Q V
division 5 - E H R U
division 6 - F G S T
Just as in NCAA hoops tournaments A B C and D should have great records and get placed well in the next level. And E F G H are in a dog fight for the other 2 groups, but at least players 7 and 8 didn't get automatically placed with A and B. Give people as many chances to do well as possible (improves turn out).
To prevent players from throwing a game to affect who moves on to the next level, everyone moves on. The first round is like the season leading up to the NCAA tournament. Not everyone plays everyone else, but everyone will have played 18 games (in our case).
For 8 players in the season use 2 maps.
For each additional 16 players use an additional map to spread out the records if the players choose to do so. See the tie breaker for placement order below if too many players have the same records.
Everyone plays each other player in the disivion twice on each of two (or three) different maps, same maps for all groups at the seeding round. After all division games have been played there will be a bunch of players with 18-0 and 17-1 records due to A B C D not in the same groups. There will be a large grouping between 10-8 and 7-11.
The groups are then scrambled using the placement order but this time based on record from 18-0 down to 0-18. Anyone can drop out at this stage of the tournament. Note that because no one is eliminated and the high level players are fairly evenly divided, anyone can play relatively well to be seeded well in the next round. And therefore your current ranking in weewar is not important.
Anyone with a tied record joins an unrated game and they each take turns firing at infantry. The most damage gets the first choice for where they want to be placed which can be a huge thing if someone wants to not be in GDs bracket but it might be out of the frying pan and into the fire eh. The reason is to avoid getting 'stuck' with a poor placement. Next time just shoot your DFA better.
Placed based on the division level record into the NCAA round robin tournament round.
Everyone plays everyone else 2 games a piece on 2 different maps. 2 maps to allow players some flexibility due to player skill with particular styles of maps and might prevent some ill feelings because of not being all that good on a style of map.
Why so many games? It is more granular and flexible and those who think they should deserve to move on will and others will know why they didn't move on. They just didn't do well enough. No need for 3 maps this time around.
Third round - The weewar Spring season
The top 8 or 16 move on to a winners/losers style tournament. The winner from the winners bracket plays the winner from the losers bracket. The top 8 or 16 are ranked by overall record, then division record, then head to head record. If #17 wants to challenge #16 for the 16th spot, ok. If #17 declines then #18 may challenge #16 for the 16th spot. They shoot infantry with DFA. If player #16 wins the DFA shootout, then player 16 can choose the map or can choose to be red or blue. The loser of the DFA shootout choose the other. Limited to first and second round maps.
To avoid problems over old maps including the problem of numbers of times some players have played some maps, and to improve the community, we make new maps and balance them. As soon as the maps are available players can begin practicing as much as they want with the new maps. Highly recommended!
The maps for later rounds can be made after the earlier rounds are half done or nearly finished.
|10/01/2012 23:50:07 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|I'm in. that's all folks|
|11/01/2012 02:11:47 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|If your still looking for more players put me in.|
|11/01/2012 02:14:02 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|Im in for the long haul...put me down|
|11/01/2012 02:49:16 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
Woohoo! I'm in!
Thanks to McMonster, Shulgin, and Daithi for organizing -- I want to play no matter what rules/maps are decided upon by our fearless leaders!
|11/01/2012 04:09:15 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
This is a very interesting idea! Can you, and others perhaps, do up some new maps as suggestions for the round robin?
|11/01/2012 04:18:26 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|Sure. I would just need specs for which kinds of maps are desired. ie take map 12345 but make it more open. ie take maps 12345 and 54321 and use the terrain style of the first and speed into battle of the second. ie take map 12345 and fix it. I'll re-post to this message the requests so people can comment on requests. Once the tourney is about ready to begin I can put the maps out there for play testing, balancing, style changes, etc. Then everyone can practice.|
|11/01/2012 06:44:25 Re:First Wee-tourney of 2012 - Round Robins|
|Of course I'm in.|