|06/06/2010 02:12:10 Wee-Strategy Links and Discussion|
A lot has been said by a lot of weewarriors about a number of strategic issues in the forum threads already. So I thought I would create an annotated listing of some of the best, IMHO, existing discussions and debates (there may be many more in the older tangler threads http://www.tangler.com/forum/weewar/topics/, but I haven't mined those yet).
And while I'm at that act of consolidation, I might as well post the links for Pluto's weewar battle simulator (a little out of date, but still very helpful for newcomers): http://pbs.weewarspy.co.uk/ (shout out to Daithi for keeping that one alive by hosting it!)
The Weewar wiki where lots of info on a variety of topics is gathered: http://weewar.wikispaces.com/
And don't forget about the specifications page: http://weewar.com/specifications
OK, here's the list of strat threads:
1) Po's The Newbie's Guide to Weewar isn't really about "strategy", but rather it's an illustrated intro for new players. A little out of date, but well worth highlighting here:
2) Strategy 101: Material and Position - I'd say this is an excellent starting point for understanding wee-strategy at its broadest level:
As VdM says in his post,
3) One on One strategies - This thread focuses on non-pro unit strategies for a particular map, but what I find most interesting in it are GD's comments about patience and deception and Stirling's comments at the end where he really lays out a model for how one should be thinking ahead about your strategy for any map/game:
I like this in particular,
4) Optimal Strategy - While I am on the topic of Stirling's strategic genius, I ought to add a link to this thread. There really isn't anything of much interest until you get to page 2 of the thread when he drops a bomb, using the immune system as a metaphor for weewar strategy. I won't go any further except to say that it's a must read:
5) Unit usefullness classification - I'm not sure that this thread would strictly qualify as a strategy discussion, but it is a very informative and wide ranging debate amongst a diversity of weewarriors on the value of different kinds of units in different situations. What may push it into the strategy zone is Jeye's move to suggest classifying units by usefulness categories:
6) Wide side of the wedge and path to victory - another gem from Stirling. Not only elaborates these key concepts, but gives the best strategy breakdown for a single map (Aruba) I have read in the forums: http://weewar.com/forum/posts/list/893.page
Please feel free to add your thread suggestions, or to use this as a springboard for new strategy discussions. Hopefully we can start having more of these kinds of collective chit chats!
This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 18/12/2012 15:39:35
|08/06/2010 05:13:25 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
A great collection of strategy threads there. It was humbling to read through those, some for the first time actually. It's kinda amazing how some of the top dogs here really seem to know strategy inside and out. Maybe I should flip these more regularly, especially when in rough games
I thought the strategy of building a unit to trigger the opponent to build a unit that you want them to build is ingeniously deceptive and something I don't think I've done in the past, but you know I will now
|08/06/2010 07:12:25 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
McMonster, your ability to organize is scary, and probably why you`re an efficient learner. I wish I had that list at the top when I first started, instead of having to go through trial and error methods..
Reading what I wrote back in the day, I would just like to elaborate:
What I meant by patience, is really more in analyzing the situation, and going through the possible scenarios of what you think will happen (and what you want to happen) before moving.
Another point here, is that too much patience can be terrible. If you recognize a serious weakness and do not pounce at the right time, you may not have the chance again. Even worse, you may be attacked while waiting and be robbed of victory. Patience in analysis is what I`d like to correct there. Cheers!
|10/06/2010 05:40:02 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
Thanks for the positive feedback fellas. Interesting revision GD - agreed!
So, how 'bout some strategy chit chat about offensive vs. defensive playing styles? At the end of the 5th thread on the list above I presented the following argument:
To this I would add that capturing bases, which is part of most maps, best suits an aggressive strategy. Furthermore, I find that keeping the initiative on offense allows me to dictate where the battles will be, and unit selection for my opponent as well as for myself - but this depends on the map. A map like "there will be blood III" http://weewar.com/map/27986, for example, has a race for the base dimension, but has a distance between ground forces that allows for a fair bit of freedom in terms of setting up your land army without being dictated to (although the choices are indeed limited by the demands of the map and its terrain).
So, offensive or defensive style folks? What makes the best weewarrior?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/06/2010 05:45:14
|10/06/2010 09:29:20 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
|Offensive. They crash me in a few turns. Defending let me survive more|
|10/06/2010 10:56:47 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
I used to be quite a defensive player, but have become somewhat more aggressive. I guess it's mostly because I've become more impatient, but probably also because I have more experience on what kind of attacks will work. I do find that I almost always aim to go on the offensive, but it often takes me so long to set up for it that the opponent ends up attacking first. Also, I'm quite careful and rarely attack unless I can see a favourable outcome. Often it's easier to see the potential for a devastating counter-attack on the enemy's part, so attacking may take some time.
Tactical principle: Do attack, if you can kill a more valuable unit than you will lose in the counter-attack. Don't attack if you will lose more.
If there's no threat of a counter-attack, even mismatched units can be used to attack. Even AA-guns can be used for a ground assault, if they don't get killed in a counter-attack (and there's currently no aircraft to keep at bay)
|10/06/2010 18:13:00 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
I have an aggressive style but I do not exercise the patience GD calls for. If you want to see examples of poorly-conducted ambitious operations, follow my games. I seem to put on clinics with how not to go on the offense.
For a while, I was up in the 1600s and I held it down for months. I was more methodical, with a better pace and a slightly less aggressive style but it wasn't as fun, even with the score. I've gone back to my old style of attack, attack, attack and my score shows it.
|10/06/2010 19:51:31 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
I'm all for aggression, a game that I don't attack in causes me unease and boredom. I agree with McMonster that an attack strategy is absolutely necessary to win, but I do believe that weewar favors the defender and definitely favors the counter-attacker. Mainly because you don't need to be very creative to defend, but the complete opposite is true when attacking. If you want to have fewer losses and increase rating points it's much easier if you use a defender/counter attacker style.
Offense requires a lot better planning and insight, and is definitely more risky since you're putting yourself out there and stretching supply lines. Also, if you don't call off an attack that's not going well in time you're pretty much dead.
Attack all the way!
Not that Napoleon is the best general, but he put it well when he said that a static army is a dead army.. lol, also Rommel described his strategy in a few words, "Attack! and quickly." Last but not least, Alexander was an attacker and he never lost once.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 10/06/2010 20:02:26
|22/06/2010 12:14:47 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
While I agree with the second claim, that attacking is more risky and requires better planning and insight, I must disagree with the first. The defender who encounters a skilled opponent who plans well and with insight is in trouble. Attack combos favour the aggressor. And you get to choose which units attacks what.
The reason it sometimes appears that the best weewarriors are defensively-oriented is because that's the easiest way for them to win - to sit back and let the less patient and less skilled aggressor crash against the rocks of their defense. But when they run into their match on the battlefield, I bet the aggressor wins most of the time, unless the map favours a defensive position.
But what do I know? Aldairor and Whatyousay recently took me and my aggressive style to school, and GD currently has my by the gonads in our 137 round match on Jo's http://weewar.com/game/232330
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 22/06/2010 13:30:18
|24/06/2010 15:03:43 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
|I don't know McMonster, it's pretty even. It's back and forth for the last 100 rounds.. lol I'm not seeing any base captures in the immediate future|
|29/06/2010 18:00:35 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
Jovana's Fields with only non-pro units has got to be one of the best battles in WeeWar.
Turn off hovers, destroyers, BSes, and DFAs and it's awesome.
|29/06/2010 19:28:30 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
|can you post the map number or URL please|
|09/09/2010 10:38:40 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
howdy folks! any new links or strategy suggestions?
how bout some chit chat about the strategic implications of the new cruiser and re-balancing of other units on the test server. how did that play out? i just couldn't make time for playing there. are the changes coming to the wee-mainstream?
|10/09/2010 22:09:23 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
One tip that has helped me out sometimes:
Does it look like your opponent has the capability to do all sorts of nasty things to you? Consider what it is about the enemy's capabilities that make you worried, and try to turn it around. If he can make a crippling strike that you can't prevent, chances are that you can do the same to him. Do it first.
Looks like McMonster has spiked gonads of iron.
|11/09/2010 05:32:35 Re:Celebration: Reviewing and Renewing Strategy Discussion|
Maybe more pyschology than strategy, it's often struck me as I look at the map with a "omg this is really tight, what on earth do I do now, I may be/am doomed" feeling that an opponent is often having similar thoughts. It's rare that the return move I fear most happens - although that's not to say that something even scarier can't happen instead. It's human nature to worry about what others are thinking about you without always realising the same is usually true in reverse.
Every player has strengths and weaknesses and a preferred style of play. Some are aggressive, some defensive, some prefer certain units and dislike others. If player X > player Y and player Y > player Z, it does not necessarily follow X > Z. Learn the preferences and patterns of your opponent and use them to your advantage. Always learn from them even if you don't "agree" with them
It's hard to know whether to keep the gloves on or take them off in these scenarios